[00:00:02] Host: Mics, camera, action
[00:00:06] Kiran: Thank you, Agastya, for starting us off in this week's episode of Takaro Explains. And this week, Debbie, we have something really exciting that we're gonna be talking about. We're gonna be talking about a group, a cohort, or an of countries, right?
[00:00:25] Debkanya: That's right. It's a group called the BRICS, okay? And this is not bricks as in the bricks you lay down to build a house with or your Lego bricks. This is B-R-I-C-S, BRICS. Now, what is BRICS? Yeah, they missed the K. There's no K in BRICS. This is BRICS without a K. But what this is, like you said, is a group of countries that have come together and have been working together for a while.
[00:00:53] Debkanya: The reason we're talking about this is because they just had a really big meeting, which took place in September in Delhi. So it was hosted by India, and we're gonna go into why this group is important, what they actually do. They don't come together to play Lego, for example. And why is it important for the world, huh?
[00:01:13] Kiran: Oh, what a joke. Yeah. Excellent
[00:01:14] Debkanya: Thanks.
[00:01:15] Kiran: note so BRICS, it basically started with five countries coming together, and hence the acronym BRICS, which is Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. And the reason they had come together, I think it was about 20 years ago or so, was fundamentally because these were called the developing nations, the ones that were going to propel the global economy to that next stage of growth.
[00:01:41] Kiran: Because all the Western powers like the US, UK, Europe, all of them had started seeing growth stagnating a little bit, and then, you had these new emerging economies Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa coming up and starting to contribute in a big way to the global economy. Obviously, China being the biggest almost every single manufacturing product coming out of there 20 years ago and maybe even today. And that's how it started
[00:02:09] Debkanya: Yeah. In fact, as we go into this, into into this topic a little bit more in detail, here's my favorite activity ever, okay? I want you to get your atlas, globe, map out. Take a look. Okay? Where is Brazil? It's in South America, like Kiran said. Where is Russia? It's the largest country. It's stretching across Europe and Asia.
[00:02:31] Debkanya: You know where India is. You know where China is, next to Russia. South Africa is way down at the bottom of the African continent. And then you have s- a few more countries that have joined the BRICS, okay? So these are the main five. Now, BRICS has 11 full members, so we've expanded, right? You have Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates or the UAE, right?
[00:02:59] Debkanya: Find all these countries on the map. Look where they are. What you will notice, there is no country from Europe, and there's no country from North America over here. And there is no United Kingdom either. So no United States, no United Kingdom, no Europe
[00:03:15] Kiran: Yep. And in fact, all of these countries put together is actually more than half the world's population. So you're talking about a majority of the world being represented by this small 11-nation group.
[00:03:28] Debkanya: Yes.
[00:03:29] Kiran: that's pretty impressive.
[00:03:31] Debkanya: Yeah, and that's why it's a big deal, and that's why we, we-- I, I think it's important for us to know what the BRICS does, right? So they realize that the world economy is growing in a certain way, where the western part of the world, which is the US, the UK, are getting a lot of importance.
[00:03:45] Debkanya: And they realize that, hey, we are growing too, and we have our own ambitions. We, we want to be taken seriously on the global stage, so why don't we come together and ask for what we want, right? We want to show that we have the power as well, and we're gonna make certain demands. So these are the reasons the BRICS was created.
[00:04:04] Debkanya: So one of the things, for example, that the BRICS has done is they have created something called the New Development Bank. Now, this is very interesting. Normally, when we want funding, when a country wants funding to do anything, they... a-and they don't have enough funds of their own, they look at other countries to help them out.
[00:04:21] Debkanya: Usually, it's the US or the UK again, or Europe, that come in and say, "Okay, we will fund you." But that also means they get to decide what gets funded, what the money gets used for. So that's why these BRICS nations said, "Hey, we're gonna make our own bank, and we are gonna pool in our own resources and our own funds so that we can decide what's important for us and what we want to spend this money on."
[00:04:43] Kiran: Yeah. So there, there is a global bank, it's called the IMF,
[00:04:47] Debkanya: Yes
[00:04:48] Kiran: which is the International Monetary Fund. There's also a World Bank. Two very different organizations. World Bank does a lot more of development projects and funding of those kind of things, versus IMF, which kind of controls a lot of the trade and economics of the world. I think the idea for the BRICS was the fact that they wanted to have a bigger say
[00:05:10] Debkanya: Yeah
[00:05:11] Kiran: global economics, right? And China and India and Russia and, all the others were coming together to say, if we pooled in our own money started helping each other without having to look outside and go and ask the Western powers?" And so it's also a little bit about creating that sense of independence,
[00:05:33] Debkanya: yes, absolutely
[00:05:34] Kiran: have dependence, like you were saying, Debbie. And I think what's also interesting is that there's already been billions and billions of dollars to help build that has been poured into each one of these countries, right?
[00:05:46] Kiran: And in fact, it's not just about money being exchanged within these countries. What's very interesting is that the BRICS have also done a lot of cultural exchanges as well. A lot of student exchange programs, festivals, sports, youth forums. You can think of it almost the Commonwealth.
[00:06:03] Debkanya: Mm-hmm
[00:06:03] Kiran: Commonwealth is also a group of alliances, you know, ex- countries who were once governed by the
[00:06:10] Debkanya: The Empire
[00:06:11] Kiran: by the empire, English empire.
[00:06:14] Debkanya: By the British Crown, yes
[00:06:16] Kiran: the British Crown. And you have the Commonwealth Games. So similarly, even BRICS has tried to do things like that. I don't think it's become as popular as, the Commonwealth Games and some of those sort of events.
[00:06:28] Kiran: But there have been events which have been organized around the BRICS countries as well.
[00:06:34] Debkanya: And I think this also kind of creates a way for these countries to get to know each other better. Like you said, there's a lot of cultural exchange, there's a lot of understanding, there's a lot of expertise that is exchanged as well. So coaches and artists, everyone can work together and share their knowledge together.
[00:06:53] Debkanya: And what it also then does is it paves the way for more cooperation when it comes to security or political issues, right? So if these countries say that, "Hey, we know each other, we understand each other, let's also work to defend each other, protect each other. Let's figure out if we can trade with each other in a way that, you know, we are protecting our shores, for example, our oceans, our shipping routes," things like that.
[00:07:15] Debkanya: "Let's fight terrorism together," things like that, right? So it- it's multiple ways in which these countries can come together.
[00:07:22] Kiran: In fact, think of it like this, and I love this analogy, I've said it multiple times before on this show. Think of it as a playground. You have one strong individual who's probably the US, and you come together as a group of friends in order to basically negotiate and make sure that you also get your time on the swing,
[00:07:41] Debkanya: Mhm
[00:07:42] Kiran: also get your time on the,
[00:07:43] Debkanya: Slide
[00:07:45] Kiran: slide, whatever it may be, right?
[00:07:46] Kiran: So that's exactly what happens on a global level with heads of countries Maybe it's good to also now, Debbie, talk about
[00:07:56] Kiran: What basically happened at the BRICS summit in New Delhi?
[00:08:00] Debkanya: Well, it was a big deal. This is the 18th BRICS summit that took place in India. It's important that India hosted it because it shows that India is very important in terms of, you know, bringing people together. Leaders from all...
[00:08:11] Kiran: the fourth time
[00:08:13] Debkanya: Yeah, fourth time that India has done this. Yes. And leaders from all 11 BRICS countries came, which means you had Xi Jinping, who is the president of China, and you have Putin, Vladimir Putin from Russia. You had the presidents and prime ministers from Brazil, South Africa, Indonesia, Iran, Egypt, Ethiopia and UAE.
[00:08:31] Debkanya: All of them came together, which is a big deal. Like we said, the US- the US was not represented because they are not part of the BRICS. And the theme this year was about resilience, innovation, cooperation and sustainability. All the things that we were speaking about.
[00:08:45] Kiran: 100%, and I think it was ve- very interesting because of one particular country who's now part of BRICS as well with the current context which is Iran. And given that there is a big standoff, the Iran-US war is still going on to a large extent.
[00:09:02] Debkanya: Absolutely
[00:09:03] Kiran: week there was, bombings and a lot of fire exchanged. I think the importance over here was also about the fact that these 11 countries could agree amongst themselves, it also isolates them a little bit from that war to a large extent, or at least find ways to cooperate because again, Strait of Hormuz, we've covered it in the past, a big escalation point.
[00:09:27] Kiran: Most of the oil coming from the region, from Iran, Kuwait, have to go past the Strait of Hormuz, and so ships are getting stalled. And so I think there was a big point of cooperation and resilience, which is if things become really tough, how can all of these countries come together to make it easier for each other.
[00:09:48] Kiran: So I think it was a very conference given the time and the context of what's happening around the world.
[00:09:58] Debkanya: Agreed completely. In fact, it is, you know, we know that it's not easy to get so many countries, so many big, important countries to agree with each other, right? And we've seen the whole world is disagreeing. You sometimes wonder, right, how much of this is going to keep going on because there are lots of little wars and skirmishes happening everywhere.
[00:10:15] Debkanya: So the fact that these countries have come together and decided to, okay, at least sit around a table and let's agree on certain things is important, and it is a big deal. So some of the things, you know, some of the big topics that they discussed at this particular BRICS summit was, one they spoke about the United Nations Security Council.
[00:10:33] Debkanya: Now, that is another big topic that we could go into in further detail, but basically that's a big group of countries where the US and the UK and Western countries have a lot of say and a lot of power. India is not part of the United Nations Security Council. It has been wanting to be on that council for a while.
[00:10:52] Debkanya: So the, the UNSC or the United Nations Security Council is a group of 15 member countries, right? 15 member countries, five permanent and 10 non-permanent. China and Russia are part of that as is France, UK, and the US, and there are 10 other countries. Now, they feel that, okay, a lot of these decisions that are taken here are taken by vote, so we don't have enough say.
[00:11:15] Debkanya: We don't have enough power, right? The, you know, few powerful countries have too much power. So let's discuss how we can, make this more fair. That was one thing that was discussed. The second thing that was discussed was terrorism. Can we fight terrorism?
[00:11:27] Debkanya: And specifically countries that are in the BRICS are very vulnerable to terrorism, right? India, for example, as we know has had terror attacks many times, right? So how do we work together to ensure that this doesn't keep happening? How do we stop it, right? The third thing, like you were mentioning, Kiran, was about our oceans.
[00:11:45] Debkanya: How do we make sure that we can keep trading through our shipping vessels, right? This is called maritime security because our oceans, you know, not only have there been lots of issues because of Iran through the Strait of Hormuz and the Suez Canal and that entire region where a lot of trading ships have been stuck over many, many months.
[00:12:05] Debkanya: There's also a lot of piracy that happens in these regions. You know, believe it or not, we still have pirates in our oceans, right? So it sounds very cool and fun, but it's actually not, because what they do is they stop our ships and they take over everything, and it's, it's quite scary if you're a sailor.
[00:12:21] Kiran: Thieves at sea, right?
[00:12:22] Debkanya: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Kiran: pirates.
[00:12:23] Debkanya: Thieves at sea, exactly. The fourth thing that was discussed was about sustainability, basically about our planet. How do we work together to make sure that we have clean energy? You know, more solar energy, more wind energy, more hydro energy. How do we protect nature? How do we come together?
[00:12:39] Debkanya: How do we make sure there are enough funds for us to be able to build, you know, clean technology, right? So that we can all have access to good, clean energy. So that was another one. And then the fifth one was, was of course, how do we keep working with each other? Do you remember Kiran, we've done this in detail, and maybe you can do a quick update on that.
[00:12:57] Debkanya: Trump had put a lot of tariffs on countries like India, on China, right? Because we were not agreeing to all his terms.
[00:13:05] Debkanya: So they said, "Gee, that can't be good for business, so let's figure out a way to work with each other so we don't get impacted by these tariffs as much by the other Western powers."
[00:13:15] Kiran: Yeah. And I think if you look at the economy over the last couple of months India is still negotiating with the US. India wants tariffs to be lower than what US has charged Vietnam and, some of the other competitive countries in this region. And I think there's this entire sort of shift of narrative that the tariffs didn't really work, and it hasn't really helped US, create that strong position that he assumed it would. So they are also re-looking at the entire tariff structure. But at the same time, I think self-sufficiency is becoming very important, where you don't just depend on one other country for all of your business and for all of your money. You have other partners that you can work with, and you can sell to and buy from so that you're not dependent on just one . And that, I think, is very crucial when it comes to these countries and the alliances that are being formed. Is probably one of the most important reasons these countries come together. It is actually about the money and about the, trade because every country needs to make that money and be able to survive and grow and thrive. And there's a concept of Global South.</p>
<p><strong>[00:14:22]</strong> Debkanya: Yes</p>
<p><strong>[00:14:22]</strong> Kiran: this, I think, in an episode or two before, which does not mean anything from a geography perspective. That's the weird part. Global South is basically just referencing countries that are developing who are not your main superpowers like the US and, some of the European countries and so on and so forth.</p>
<p><strong>[00:14:44]</strong> Kiran: It's basically some of the developing countries like India and and South Africa and Brazil and some of the others. There was a whole aspect of how the entire Global South needed more respect because there are more opportunities coming out of the Global South if you look at the economy.</p>
<p><strong>[00:15:00]</strong> Kiran: And so that was a big deal from this summit. And India wanted to make sure that there was a bridge between that wealthy West and the developing world and to show the world that, these countries are also s- growing and becoming very important.</p>
<p><strong>[00:15:15]</strong> Debkanya: And deserve a voice, I think, yeah. So we also deserve a voice. And a lot of innovation is happening in the Global South. A lot of problems that we are faced with in this world today maybe, you know, when it comes to, say, global warming or whether it's technology, a lot of solutions are being built from the Global South, right?</p>
<p><strong>[00:15:33]</strong> Kiran: And in fact, Debbie, like you mentioned, it's not just about the economy, it's also about the sustainability and, how we can build a better planet together because that's also a really important piece for the BRICS and something we should look forward to if this alliance continues.</p>
<p><strong>[00:15:46]</strong> Kiran: What's really interesting is China is the world's largest producer of solar electricity and solar power, which is amazing, and they account for 30 to 40% of all solar energy created in the world. US comes in second, and in fact, India comes in, in the third position with solar and wind combined from a renewable energy perspective.</p>
<p><strong>[00:16:12]</strong> Kiran: So if you see, this region, these countries are actually the ones moving and bounds ahead from a renewable energy perspective as well, which is great news for us, and we hope that they will continue to go down that path and with all of these AI data centers and all of that coming up more and more, which means more power, more water, more cooling, majority of it hopefully can be through renewables instead of, coal and</p>
<p><strong>[00:16:39]</strong> Debkanya: It's about the people, making sure people have better lives, better jobs, better futures. But at the same time, you cannot expect us to buy more expensive, greener technology from the Western world or stop using up energy and stop growing either, right? So there's... We have to find the right, the right balance.</p>
<p><strong>[00:16:56]</strong> Debkanya: So</p>
<p><strong>[00:16:56]</strong> Kiran: pull</p>
<p><strong>[00:16:57]</strong> Debkanya: yeah, there's a lot of push and pull there. And on that note, I think we can wrap up this episode because there's a lot of information that we've kind of shared today</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:06]</strong> Kiran: We have a quiz question for today</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:08]</strong> Debkanya: We do. We do. Because again, as usual, we want to make sure that you've been listening, so I've kept the quiz question for this week's episode very, very simple. Okay, let's see. Remember I told you to take a map out, so if you've done this, this is super easy for you. I want you to tell me which 11 countries are part of the BRICS?</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:28]</strong> Debkanya: Yeah. Easy?</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:30]</strong> Kiran: It's a long list</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:30]</strong> Debkanya: It's a long list. 11 countries that are part of the BRICS. I want you to send me an audio note listing out all 11 countries that are part of the BRICS, and we will pick a lucky winner</p>
<p><strong>[00:17:44]</strong> Kiran: And the lucky winner's audio note is gonna be played for every single person listening. In fact, last week we'd asked you the question and we have a winner. Aisa had this to say Congratulations, Aiza. That was the right answer, and as always, keep listening to Takaro. We will get in touch with you. And make sure that you speak to your friends about Takaro. Spread the word.</p>
<p><strong>[00:18:18]</strong> Kiran: Also make sure listen to our latest show, Takaro Time Machine, which actually talks about the history of India right from the beginning all the way to today. Each episode covers a new age and and a new era.</p>
<p><strong>[00:18:32]</strong> Kiran: So it's super interesting, and we also pull out very surprising, interesting stories for each episode. So make sure you tune in, and until next week it is bye-bye</p>
<p><strong>[00:18:46]</strong> Debkanya: Goodbye.</p>