[00:00:00] Debkanya: Mics camera. Action. Welcome to Takaro Kids. Today we are going to try and tackle a very complicated, but a very important story. This is something that happened in India in our parliament just this week, we are gonna try and explain what this is as best as we can.
[00:00:19] Debkanya: We had to do a lot of homework ourselves and you know, to try and get the facts just right because it is complicated even for adults to understand.
[00:00:27] Kiran: very complicated bill.
[00:00:29] Debkanya: Yeah, yeah, exactly. We are gonna be talking about delimitation. and the women's bill. You might have heard a little bit about it from, you know, people around you.
[00:00:39] Debkanya: We are gonna try and explain what exactly went down.
[00:00:41] Kiran: So delimitation. I mean, first of all, let's talk about just, very quickly what the Indian parliament looks like. Uh, the way the Parliament works is that there are people who are elected into the parliament. These are called your ministers of parliament. They sit in Delhi, they govern the entire country. And because India is a democracy, in the Constitution, it was very clearly laid out that there will be representation from each state. You know, there'll be people from, uh, from Haryana and from West Bengal, and from Rajistan, and from Karnataka and from Kerala. So every single state and union territory had to be represented to be a part of this parliament. Now we all know each state is not the same size. Each state is different population, so many different factors. So how do you decide how many people are elected from each state? That's fundamentally where the entire sort of, bills starts from.
[00:01:41] Kiran: That's the concept. So, we gained independence when Debbie.
[00:01:46] Debkanya: 1947.
[00:01:48] Kiran: Excellent. 1952. When the first Lok Sabha began, and it began with 489 seats. Then in 1963, the seats were increased because population was increasing and there was a reorganisation of states, so it became 522 seats, and in 1973, they based the seat count, on the 1971 census. Do you wanna talk about what a census is?
[00:02:16] Debkanya: Yeah, I think we should get into what a census is. A census is basically, where you count the number of people in your country. So you go around, you find out how many people are there in each family, how many people stay in a particular city, state, village, town, everywhere in your neighborhood.
[00:02:32] Debkanya: How many women are there, how many elderly people are there. They will try and understand, okay, what is the age group that we have? And they'll basically collect a whole bunch of information just so that they understand, you know what.
[00:02:44] Debkanya: The What are the different types of people our country is made of? That's a census in a simple, simple way to explain. Yeah.
[00:02:52] Kiran: Now let's come back to today. What is this delimitation bill?
[00:02:57] Debkanya: Yeah, it's a tough one and I'm gonna try, okay, so like Kiran you were saying, you know, we elect the number of people who can represent us in the Parliament. The Parliament is your Lok Sabha, which is a lower house, and then you have the upper house, which is the Rajya Saba. That's your parliament, where all the decision decisions about how the country has to be run. Every policy, every law is, you know, decided over here by voting, right?
[00:03:21] Debkanya: These ministers, they get to vote things into effect. Imagine. The way it would work is you have 10 classrooms. Each class has one class representative that you get to choose that this so and so is going to be your class rep. But over the years now, what's happened as the country's grown and or as your school has grown, if you stick with that analogy, your class has 20 people, but another class has
[00:03:44] Debkanya: 60 students, right? So now if you have one representative who's representing 20 people, and the other class with 60 has one rep as well. It doesn't quite seem fair, right? Because it's not really balanced because the 60 kids have only one voice. 20 kids have one voice. Think about it, right? You might need a few more reps from the class of 60 to actually make their voice heard and count.
[00:04:08] Debkanya: So that's basically what's happening in our country as well. Our country has grown, the population has grown a lot. Right. Um, but like you said, Kiran, the way the constituencies or the, you know, little groups that have the right to send a representative into parliament, these are called constituencies.
[00:04:26] Debkanya: The way the constituencies were designed was based on the numbers that were first updated in were last updated in 1971.
[00:04:34] Debkanya: This is over 50 years ago. The government then froze them so that states, which successfully reduced their population, wouldn't, you know, lose seats in the parliament, right? Basically India has been working hard to make sure that our population doesn't grow too much.
[00:04:49] Debkanya: So we try and reduce our population. A lot of states have done a good job of it, but some states have struggled to do this. Okay. So because of this, the government then said, okay, we are not gonna punish the states that of less people. We are gonna make sure that they have as much say to send that many people into Parliament to represent them so far.
[00:05:07] Debkanya: Are you with me? Are we, are we okay?
[00:05:10] Kiran: I think we're good.
[00:05:11] Debkanya: Yeah.
[00:05:12] Kiran: I think the biggest, tension that kind of comes from all of this is the fact, like, like you said, there are certain parts of India which have been able to. Really arrest the population growth, um, and not grow at the same rate that some of the other regions have.
[00:05:26] Kiran: So for example, the ones who are now really, really concerned are the South Indian states because they, the population hasn't grown as fast as the north Indian states have. Right. And so, um, I think that's where the tension is, where there are two different groups of states who, one want it, one don't, one want it in a different way.
[00:05:47] Debkanya: Now remember, India's going to go and have its big elections in 2029. A lot of these changes need to happen before that election happens, and I think that is where. There's so much, um, back and forth between the government right now and the opposition parties, the parties that are not part of the government, right?
[00:06:07] Debkanya: Now this is linked to another bill and that's where things get a little bit more complex, and that is called the Women's Reservation Bill.
[00:06:17] Debkanya: Shall we go into what the women's reservation bill is?
[00:06:21] Kiran: Yeah, think like everywhere the world, whether it's in the company or it's in, you know, society, there are always fewer women, than men being represented in a lot of these forums. Right? And so that is a concern that, um, you know, everyone has from a parliament perspective, because if this is the group that is governing and deciding everything about the country, it needs women's representation as well, right?
[00:06:47] Kiran: Everyone would understand that. So now there are very, very few women in The Parliament in 2023, there were, you know, about 78 women out of the 542 Lok Sabha members, of Parliament,
[00:07:04] Debkanya: Yeah, we need more. Yeah, we need more, for sure.
[00:07:06] Debkanya: So to fix this, what? What happened was in 2023, the Parliament said that it was a big landmark law. It was a very important law. They basically said that we want to pass something called the Women's Reservation Act, which says 33%. So that would be roughly say out of 10 people three will be women in the Parliament. That's what they want, 33%.
[00:07:28] Kiran: That's double the number of today, right?
[00:07:30] Debkanya: And this was passed. Everybody agreed that this was a great act. Great, great. Uh, new law to pass. They said there were 500, sorry, 454 votes in favor. Only two people who said no, but everyone said that this is a great idea. We must let it happen.
[00:07:48] Debkanya: We need more women in parliament. But the problem is, while the law was passed and everyone agreed it has not been implemented yet. It's not kicked in yet, which means they haven't actually started making it a thing that everyone has to follow.
[00:08:04] Debkanya: And why was it not implemented? It's because this law was linked to what we said was the census. Remember the census? That hasn't happened in a while. Well, yeah, they linked it to the census and it's also linked to the delimitation exercise wherein they are redrawing how many people, how many representatives you're allowed to send to parliament.
[00:08:25] Debkanya: All these things are basically, one is connected to the other and they said, we will decide on women's representation based on the next census as well as delimitation. And so, which means you're pretty much stuck.
[00:08:37] Kiran: Yeah. And if it were completely two separate, you know, bills that were gonna be made into law, I think this would've passed fairly easily. It would've gone through. But the problem is it's now connected to the de limitation, which changes the entire dynamic of the country, right? And changes the way in which, uh, members of parliament are voted and where from
[00:08:57] Kiran: they're voted. So I think this year, this week, on the 16th of April, the government introduced these bills to the parliament. What's very interesting is India is not a simple majority in terms of a democracy, right? Especially when it comes to constitutional bills or bills related to the constitutional change. So in the Lok Sabha on the 16th of April when it was actually, you know, put out for a vote. The bill actually got a majority of the people who said yes for both delimitation and the women's reservation.
[00:09:35] Debkanya: Not good enough.
[00:09:37] Kiran: it's not good enough because even though it received 298 votes in favor and only 230 against, so technically 298 wins. Over 230. But a change in the Constitution, you need two thirds majority, and so that would've meant they needed 352 votes in favor, not 298. They were about 54 votes short, so therefore, it did not go through.
[00:10:06] Kiran: So it's fair to say that both sides actually want that women's reservation bill to go through, but the real fight is about, you know, the delimitation bill and how that's gonna redraw the entire map of India from a, voting perspective. And that's huge. So that's why it basically failed.
[00:10:22] Kiran: It's not just a simple majority in India. For a constitutional change, you need a two thirds majority.
[00:10:27] Debkanya: And I mean, you might ask, right, you might wonder why can't the women's reservation bill be completely separated, and passed in time before the elections? And why can't this de limitation thing be a separate thing? The answer to that is it because it. It can be. It can be separated and delinked, but for that, what the government will have to do, they have to pass another constitutional amendment like you were saying.
[00:10:51] Debkanya: Any change to the Constitution, any amendment. Amendment is change. Anything that you want to change in the constitution of India, you need two thirds majority, and you need to get a lot of people on the same page agreeing, because this is big deal. The Constitution is what, you know, decides and helps us figure out how we want to be run as a country, what we want to be as a country.
[00:11:15] Debkanya: Right. So they can do it. Yeah. It's a rule book. It's a rule book that we have to all follow so they can kind of, if they really want to, but it's going to be a lot of work and a lot of time, which the government feels it doesn't have right now.
[00:11:28] Kiran: And I think through the last couple of months, you know, there have also been certain conversations about the, uh, about these bills in Parliament. And there was one point where, the ruling party have basically said in parliament that, you know, it'll be a 50% uniform increase across all states.
[00:11:46] Kiran: So it's not that some states are gonna reduce in the number and some are gonna gain, but everyone, every state will basically increase at the same proportion. Unfortunately, that was not written into the bill. When it actually came in as a bill, uh, to be passed into a law, this particular aspect was not written about. And so I think that's what the opposition is now crying foul about saying, Hey, why was this not added? If this was something that was discussed and, you know, assured.
[00:12:17] Debkanya: You can make that promise. But then if once it's done, it's done. And then if suddenly tomorrow something else happens, then what do we do? Who do we go to? Because now it is in the constitution and. Like we said, once it's there, it's there, right? And you can't really mess around with it.
[00:12:32] Debkanya: So it is a complex situation. It is about fairness, it's about justice. It's about making sure that the states that have a larger population get a fair say in terms of how the country is run. But it is. Also about the states that have worked hard to not let their population grow too much not getting penalized in the process, by reducing the number of people they get to send to parliament, you know?
[00:12:55] Debkanya: So there's a lot of that, but I think that's what is interesting about being in a democracy, right? Where there's a lot of debate, a lot of arguments, but ultimately we hope to find an answer that works for as many people as possible. You can never keep a hundred percent of the people happy. You know, that's, that's just the way of life. But it's about finding a good solution that everybody can work with and is okay with.
[00:13:18] Kiran: But that brings us to the quiz question for the day. What is today's quiz question, Debbie?
[00:13:25] Debkanya: It's a very, very important quiz question, and this is something we all should know about. The whole story that we talked about today was about amendments to or changes to the Constitution of India. Our rule book, the book by which we all live our lives here in this country.
[00:13:42] Debkanya: I want to know who wrote it, who is known as the architect of the Indian Constitution. And the reason I said it's important because his birthday was in April, so.
[00:13:56] Kiran: very, very important month.
[00:13:59] Debkanya: Very important month. We'll give you some options. Uh, I think, you know, the birth month should kind of give you a hint, but you shouldn't need any hints for this one.
[00:14:08] Debkanya: Option one. Is my birth month. You are right.
[00:14:12] Debkanya: Okay, Kiran, you are not one of the options. Yes, it's your birthday this month, so happy birthday. Everyone you can send your birthday wishes to Kiran.
[00:14:19] Debkanya: He's obviously super excited that it's his birthday this month. So yes, do send in your wishes. Meanwhile, also send in the correct answer to a quiz question I'm gonna give you, give you the options now without any more distractions. Option one. Mahatma Gandhi. Option two, was it Jawaharlal Nehru? Option three, was it Subhash Chandra Bose and option four?
[00:14:45] Debkanya: Was it Dr BR Ambedkar. Who is the architect of the Indian Constitution?
[00:14:52] Kiran: It's a good one. It's a very important one as well. And maybe also try and read up a little bit about the person so you understand, you know, why he was chosen as the architect. So send us your answers on takarokids.com or on Instagram DM- direct messages with your parents, sending us a message on Instagram with the right answer and one lucky winner is chosen every single week for exciting prizes.
[00:15:17] Kiran: Doesn't mean that you have to be the first person to send it in. Doesn't mean you have to send it 17 times. It does not mean any of that. Send it and one lucky winner is chosen. Just like last week, last week's question was where did the Artemis two mission take off from? The options were Cape Hope, Cape Canaveral, Batman's Cape, SpaceX.
[00:15:42] Debkanya: It was not SpaceX, Kiran, you've got that wrong. Option four was the Kennedy Space Center.
[00:15:48] Kiran: was, wasn't it?
[00:15:49] Debkanya: It was a Kennedy Space Center, and that is the correct answer. It was the Kennedy Space Center that Artemis II took off from. Okay. It's very close to Cape Canaveral, by the way,
[00:16:02] Kiran: is.
[00:16:02] Debkanya: but it's not the same.
[00:16:04] Kiran: Excellent. And the lucky winner is Philip Rosario from Goa. Congratulations, Philip. Your certificate and everything else is gonna reach you fairly soon. So keep an eye out and be like, Philip, answer this week's question, who was the architect of the Indian Constitution? Until next week, it is. Bye-bye.